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"The Force" in a Sith's Life?

This forum is to discuss aspects of esoteric thought and mysticism in a general context.

"The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Setanaoko » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:15 am

I recently posted a snippet of an article I'm putting in my book regarding the Jedi Path (don't have a name yet...), and in there I put something that I'll be curious to see how many people think "THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS!"

The name of the article for the book is "The Force is My Ally, But I'm No One's *****". The snippet is named "Loyalty to the Code, Not the Force". As you can probably tell, I proposed that a Jedi should not seek guidance from "the Force" but rather the Jedi Code. The Force can inform, but should not decide your course of action.

After meeting Luciana in person the other day, I realized I need to get in here a little bit more and see how everyone is doing. So the thought came up- where do you guys stand on the subject of the role "the Force" takes in your own lives?
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Darth Praxus » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:32 pm

I am the Force, the Force is me, we are the Force, the code is the Force.

Don't get hung up on distinctions.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:11 pm

I am not in the habit of giving time in my life to parasites.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Cisor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:55 pm

Are you true Sith or a jedi?
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Setanaoko » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:41 pm

Was that question for me, Cisor? Or someone else? I'm pretty sure that my position within the community is fairly well established...if not...maybe I need to reassert myself.... :P (look under my name on the left, says it all lol)
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Martialis » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:24 pm

I personally see the force as a metaphysical omnipotent, yet not intelligent entity. I see it as something similar to the mythos, but nowhere near as powerful, unless utilized through ritual.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Darth Draconis » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:18 pm

From a discussion here on the Force...
Darth Draconis wrote:What is "The Force" to you?

If you look for them, you can find explanations of the Force that range from elaborate in the extreme to bare-bones simplicity. I myself prefer the more simple of them, as they're often the most sensible, and I have a soft spot for the way it has been described in the mythos: a fundamental energy that binds all things, connects them, and flows through them. Mystical and unexplainable in some respects, but also natural and essential. I might go further, to say that the Force is all things. I'm partial to it because it encompasses all possible forms of it that have been studied throughout human history, from kundalini to prana, jing to magick, kinetic energy to electricity. Yet it's simple, and doesn't rely on the validity of any one of these aspects to maintain its own; disagree with one view, you inevitably subscribe to one or more of the others.

And any one of them is just an aspect of the force. Reject the idea of energy practices, throw out the possibility of god, and still the material acts in much the same way the Force is said to: a dead body breaks down, the elements once bound together disperse back into the rest of reality; you want your arm to move and, without even thinking about it, it moves, because of electrical signals and the physical motor skills they control. Even in attempting to cut out the mysticism in favor of a purely scientific outlook, you have energy and matter, their interactions, and all things being connected in a very quintessential way. The only question is how much of the various expressions of it fit in to your world view.

It is everything.
It is always.
It is life.
It is death.

The Tao, the Way, That... et cetera.


Is it real? If so, can you use, or channel it? How do you do this?

Yes and yes, imo. The "how" depends on which views you've adopted, which aspects you recognize as being valid, and which are actually legit (i.e. just because you believe in reiki healing doesn't necessarily mean it's legit). With my "how", I'm not really inerested in the more esoteric practices, at least not in explaining them or arguing for them. But I use it, become a conduit of it, and shape it's flow through embracing desire, being aware of my emotions, and acting on my passions. Passion is my most cherished, purest connection to the Force. My way of becoming a wellspring of it.


What can you achieve using the Force, and how far can you go with it?

I think I'm going to steal the examples David Edge used, the ones I quoted in my journal.
David Edge wrote:Success where passion is concerned might not even be understandable or recognizable by cultural definition. Take Tesla for example. Yet strangely enough - most of the time, it is. I would argue that 10 out of 10 successful people got there because they were passionate, and took their passion seriously enough to do everything (in totality) to see it recognized and rewarded. That is a separate passion; it is one that crosses personal realities with those that the world can use. (Edison) This isn’t a compromise with light, discipline, duty, or any change of dynamics. It is enjoyment taken to extremes which yields extreme and extremely satisfying results. I personally consider it an eclipse, where the singular will of one is enough to “blot out the sun” or supersede established reality. Therefore, let’s not forget that the reason for any perceived discipline is the passion. I would further argue that the taming of the mad scientist by his love of science is not the same discipline as that of a mediocre moron who works his way up through the ranks at the plumber’s union because he has no better prospects, even if we use the same word to describe their manner of behavior or relative “success”.

Even the laws of nature can obviously be bent if you're clever enough, as gravity didn't stop us from flying, or if you're strong enough, as a winner of anything can tell you. Just look at MMA; not everyone gets to the UFC, even fewer get a belt; if you're into mixed martial arts the odds aren't in your favor, but you can overcome them. The only limitations to what you can achieve are the ones you place on yourself. And even those can be overcome. It all begins with passion, brought into focus and applied to the world around you.


Can it manifest physically, or is it purely mental, or spiritual or all?

All of the above.

I highlighted the most relevant part to what you're asking, what kind of a role it plays for me, in orange. Where I stand is summed up pretty well in there. I personify the Force, channel it, shape it, but I don't really need to think in metaphysical terms to do so. We're all doing it anyways. The role it plays is inevitable, because it pervades (defines?) everything. No getting around it, but also no need to use that as the lense through which you see reality. With the exception of conscious, deliberate study of it being a passion, in which case you kind of do need to see things through your understanding of it.

You don't need to see air to breath though. You don't have to be aware of the webwork of influences (power) that are weaved throughout our every day lives for it to be there either. Same thing with the Force.

"It’s only a matter of awareness. Right under your nose is all the power over your life, maybe more than you would believe. It’s not something you can attain, just something to recognize. The air you breath, it’s there to, even if you don’t acknowledge it. You use it even if your ignorant of its presence." ~Me, Vulgar Displays of Power
Passion may sleep, but it never dies.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Xenebrus » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:22 pm

Indeed, it is inevitable that a new order1 in the Force will take place... Whether that new order comes to be a new hope for all or a new threat to all by and large depends on whichever organization2 this new order joins.

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1any individual being in the Force able to react to the ways of the Force. 2any entity competent in the teachings of the ways of the Force.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Darth Baruti » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:48 pm

The Force is life everything you see the air you breath the world around you. I am the force every breath every action I take is in communion with it is not something that needs thinking upon because you do it even if you did not know it was there. One can think on how their actions may influence the world around them, the actions you take and the ripples you make how far these will spread.

The Force is me and you but how we interact with it depends on the individual (no surprises there that I would say that)
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Xenebrus » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:07 pm

The Force is not everything...

Darkness extends far beyond the range of the Force. Furthermore, Darkness is fully supernatural whereas the Force is partly supernatural, extending far beyond the reach of the unnatural and natural (e.g., nature, life, and consciousness). Moreover, it is the partly unnatural and natural ways of the Force to which a few react.

Those able few reactors to the ways of the Force can generate energy (i.e., entaxy).


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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Setanaoko » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:02 am

...I disagree with you, Xenebrus.

I happen to agree with you Baruti. :)

But that's the beauty of "the Force"- it is not something that has a concrete understanding, it evolves with the understanding of the individual.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Luciana » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:30 pm

The Force is not everything...

Darkness extends far beyond the range of the Force. Furthermore, Darkness is fully supernatural whereas the Force is partly supernatural, extending far beyond the reach of the unnatural and natural (e.g., nature, life, and consciousness).


Lately I have been thinking about fire and where the flame goes when the fire dies.

Sure; the energy transferred. The heat is now in the wood, the wood has changed form, and the energy that the flame produced is still visible.

But whichever way you cut it, the flame is just not there anymore. It just isn't. Where did it go?

I believe the darkness X refers to is like that. It's like when you look at a dead body. A real dead body, not one on television. When you're standing inches away from it, and you can just tell that everything that made that person operate has vanished. The flame has gone, and no matter what fancy explanations you have for the transfer of energy, it doesn't matter. It's just gone.

I think there is a darkness that is almost entirely invisible from the mortal coil, like the anti-matter of the Force. Like the shadow the moon casts into space. Physics dictates it must be there, but...
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:40 am

But that's the beauty of "the Force"- it is not something that has a concrete understanding, it evolves with the understanding of the individual.


Which reduces it to nothing more than the ******** you happen to be buying at the time.

The flame has gone, and no matter what fancy explanations you have for the transfer of energy, it doesn't matter. It's just gone.

I think there is a darkness that is almost entirely invisible from the mortal coil, like the anti-matter of the Force. Like the shadow the moon casts into space. Physics dictates it must be there, but...


The "balance" of the Force is the only horror I truly know.

We are in a one way expanding universe that is cooling off. Entropy( second law of thermodynamics) continues to eat the universe, and at one point all energy will return to the lukewarm( actually like the video states, it will be absolute zero, not warm at all)indistinct sameness that it once was, as good as nothing, and it will be as if we were never here at all.

For now though, we have the fire, and we burn, and thats enough for me. It has to be.

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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Luciana » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:16 am

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"When I saw what a black, awful joke the world was, I went crazy as a coot!"

The dark side of the Force... also the funny side :lol:

I liked the video.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:14 pm

"Existential angst", sometimes called dread, anxiety, or anguish, is a term that is common to many existentialist thinkers. It is generally held to be a negative feeling arising from the experience of human freedom and responsibility. The archetypal example is the experience one has when standing on a cliff where one not only fears falling off it, but also dreads the possibility of throwing oneself off. In this experience that "nothing is holding me back", one senses the lack of anything that predetermines one to either throw oneself off or to stand still, and one experiences one's own freedom.[23]

It can also be seen in relation to the previous point how angst is before nothing, and this is what sets it apart from fear that has an object. While in the case of fear, one can take definitive measures to remove the object of fear, in the case of angst, no such "constructive" measures are possible. The use of the word "nothing" in this context relates both to the inherent insecurity about the consequences of one's actions, and to the fact that, in experiencing freedom as angst, one also realizes that one is fully responsible for these consequences. There is nothing in people (genetically, for instance) that acts in their stead—that they can blame if something goes wrong. Therefore, not every choice is perceived as having dreadful possible consequences (and, it can be claimed, human lives would be unbearable if every choice facilitated dread). However, this doesn't change the fact that freedom remains a condition of every action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis

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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Luciana » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:58 pm

Bouncing off this and the comment you made in another thread that freedom isn't ever referred to as a positive thing in the Code (paraphrasing): I was reading an article the other day about the amount of sociopaths on television at the moment and why we envy sociopaths and like to watch tv shows about them. It put forward the idea that we envy people like House and Tony Soprano precisely because their lack of freedom gives them definitive identity. They have walls they can rail against. The average American however - not so much. If you're a jerk at work you're probably going to get fired; no one is going to come and knock on your door and insist you come back because you're the only doctor who can save this man - etc. you are then left to do whatever you want. There's no resistance to define yourself by.

I appreciate the thoughtful post. I don't think anyone else has been actually able to explain to me what I am feeling. I wonder if existential apathy is part of the Sith experience. You're free - now what? I particularly liked the imagery of feeling neither desire nor aversion towards the edge of the cliff. The concept that if I fall, I fall, and yet at the same time nothing compelling me to run as far from that fall as I can get. Also the weird sense that I don't have time to do all the things I want to do and must therefore choose between them. You can have anything you want, just not everything you want. I think that contributes to my apathy. My work comes at the price of withholding my whole expression of my experience of life. Eh... Food for thought, I suppose.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:07 am



I wonder if existential apathy is part of the Sith experience. You're free - now what?


More and more, I do not see the Sith path as one of freedom. Certainly, the Force shall free you, still, again, I put no positive connotation to this.

There's no resistance to define yourself by.


We seek to break the chains to not be free, but to define ourselves, we crave resistance, which, I most often on this path translate to conflict.

We create that resistance to define ourselves.

We crave the resistance in breaking chains, in chasing passions.

“What you call passion is not a spiritual force, but friction between the soul and the outside world. Herman Hesse- The Glass Bead Game

The code, if anything is a way of defining yourself, as no, you cannot do everything you want, and more and more, I dont think thats the point.

I think part of it is finding what, in those things are what we truly want, those things in the video above he says will make "final cut".

Existential apathy is a human experience, and I have yet to meet a Sith that is not human.

A Sith is one that rails against apathy though, against entropy, and takes the time that they have boldly and moves forward with the knowledge that the cliff offers no answers, and is but an empty cage.

It can manifest in a myriad of ways, for you it seems, right now, is a bit of frustration and anger.

The philosophy that accepts death must itself be considered dead, its questions meaningless, its consolations worn out.”
– Alan Harrington, The Immortalist]


The Sith code, the Sith path, is not one that accepts anything, much less death.

We create walls to rail against, to define ourselves in a time where it is completely unfashionable, and undesirable to do so.

People do not want to be defined, and spend all to long looking over the cliff for answers that will never come.

Worse case scenario they weve a security blanket and huddle against the Darkness rather than confront it, step into it, and own it.

Mores the pity, but in the end, im to busy to waste too much time on pity, and I have not had a case of existential angst, or crisis,or apathy, in years.

The cliff is always there and we all fall off of it, but why give it more time than it deserves?
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Darth Draconis » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:19 am

I can't say I've gone years without a feeling like this, in fact I wrote a bit about it in my journal here not to long ago, but...

Luciana wrote: It put forward the idea that we envy people like House and Tony Soprano precisely because their lack of freedom gives them definitive identity. They have walls they can rail against. The average American however - not so much.

I'm not sure I see it that way, tbh. They come upon walls they must rail against. They're willful, and the walls are in the way of their wills. I think the walls are there for everyone though. The difference I see is that House, Soprano, Heisenberg, etc. and real people of a similar nature are enviable to average americans because the average joe is a coward. It's not that they lack walls to rail against, it's that they fail to follow their passions straight into the walls around them. The effect being, it's as if there are no walls, no struggle, no discernable definition. And they like watching characters beat against the walls an author or screenwriter has built because it allows them to do so vicariously, without ever coming up against their own.

When it comes to you personally, I don't think your unwilling to find yours.

From everything I know about you you're passionate, strong, and as time passes you seem to become more and more accomplished. So the connection I see between this idea of hitting against walls and your own... apathy, is that you know your heart, know that you can follow it effectively in any direction you please, but seem inundated by all the different directions you could go. You have plenty of walls to run into and maybe you're not sure which ones you want to break through. Most people don't even know what they want (or might want) though; with your level of awareness it's not like you don't have a solid foundation. Maybe what you're lacking is just the decision.

Luciana wrote:You can have anything you want, just not everything you want. I think that contributes to my apathy. My work comes at the price of withholding my whole expression of my experience of life.

Looking at it like that makes it seem like your short-changing yourself, I would think, no matter what you choose. I don't really see it that way. Pick a direction, a focal point for your expression (you can have anything) and that's as wholesome as your expression will ever get. You can't have everything, but there are things you want and then there are the things you want most, right?

...Idk, maybe some of my thoughts on it'll be useful, maybe not. I've been chewing on this on and off for the last week or so though so I thought I'd offer my perspective.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Zeref » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:43 am

To me, the Force is communication/connection. I do not believe there is any singularity in our universe. I would try and prove this, but I'd be bullshitting you all with my faulty logic. I have a feeling, though that the universe could care less about its singularity. Rather, I do see a lot of value in the connection between all things and nonthings. Connections provide the now. They allow for a past, present, and future. They are the reason for a flower's bloom, the revolutions of the Earth. This, to me, is the Force, a continuous string of connected 'now's.

So, when I say to somebody: "I continue to connect with the Force", I am meaning that I am becoming one with the moment rather than taking a back seat, waiting for my life to pass ME by.

The Force is opportunity. It will "set me free", as it were.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Luciana » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:03 am

It's not that they lack walls to rail against, it's that they fail to follow their passions straight into the walls around them.


That's a really evocative image, I like that :lol:

Looking at it like that makes it seem like your short-changing yourself, I would think, no matter what you choose. I don't really see it that way. Pick a direction, a focal point for your expression (you can have anything) and that's as wholesome as your expression will ever get. You can't have everything, but there are things you want and then there are the things you want most, right?

...Idk, maybe some of my thoughts on it'll be useful, maybe not. I've been chewing on this on and off for the last week or so though so I thought I'd offer my perspective.


I appreciate you offering your perspective, don't get all modest on me :D

Things I want, and things I want most.

I don't know if there are things I want most.

Maybe that's my problem.

Well, you know, I never updated anyone on the conversation I was having with K because something wonderful happened.

I got mad. Screaming mad. For an hour. And I was mad for days longer than that too, just not quite that mad. This overwhelming sensation of frustration finally broke through the apathy. I wanted to kick a hole in the wall (but I live in university housing so I decided not to do that. I just broke with sanity for an hour or so and ran around the place half-screaming like a loon. It was so wonderful. I accepted the fact that something had happened that I hadn't been able to process, could not process, may never BE able to process (ironically accepting that means I am finally now starting to get my head around it), but in the meantime I had been acting as if I were already dead because I had shut down my emotions so much on account of not wanting to look at the unprocessable mess that they were. And I hate the thought of death, but I was living like I was dead, and that finally became so unacceptable enough to me that I came here, of all places, because if one more person lied to me about how everything is going to be rainbows and puppies when I die I would probably have died on the spot to prove them wrong.

And I have all this life and all this power and everything I touch turns to awesome and life is so great, my will just flows through me and becomes awesome right in front of me (just to keep the topic on track, that's part of the Force in a Sith's life, in my experience). But I don't have a plan and I'm probably going to die way sooner than I want to; even if I lived another thousand years it would be too soon, so ****. How to maximize what I have?

What do I want MOST? It's a good question. I don't have a good answer. I'll sit with it for a few days.
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:33 pm

Good you found a release.

More than likely, you will go through several of these.

I expect a big one in my forties, as I hear its common for men to go through there mid-life crisis then.

Women usually experience a big one at 30 and at the first real onset of aging in the face and gray hairs.

Truly though, there is nothing that can be done.

"There is some things in this life for which there are no answers. Nothing, nothing, can be done." - Paul Muad Dib- Dune Messiah

Still, no, I wont lie to you, give you a security blanket, or a safety net, nor hope of rescue.

Much as it might comfort you, and much as sometimes, even I, would like such comfort.

Embracing Entropy, Igniting Passion
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Xenebrus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:46 pm

[quote="Luciana"]
And I hate the thought of death, but I was living like I was dead, and that finally became so unacceptable enough to me that I came here, of all places, because if one more person lied to me about how everything is going to be rainbows and puppies when I die I would probably have died on the spot to prove them wrong.

Stop... stop saying stupid **** like "I was living like I was dead". Dead is dead. There is nothing about living---not even dying--that is like being dead. Such sayings, my Lady, deceive you, expose you, and weaken your relationship, your connection, to the flowing arsis of the Force.

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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Khaos » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 am

I think its a figure of speech...
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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Xenebrus » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:14 am

Indeed, Malcolm X used that figure of speech... I saw it as a trope, but a dangerous one for her, that is if our Lady is oblivious to this trope's influence.

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Re: "The Force" in a Sith's Life?

Postby Luciana » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:56 pm

Much as it might comfort you, and much as sometimes, even I, would like such comfort.


Mmm, no, don't lie to me. Lies aren't a comfort. Knowing that the same truths afflict us all is a comfort. Maybe I'm a sadist that way. My brother killed a man. Long time ago now I guess, he's been in jail two years. Hopefully this will suffice as my shock of mortality and I won't go through it again at 30. I've had silver hair most of my life anyway 8-) finally growing out the hair dye, I'm ready to embrace my inner Targaryen. But it might be hard on me when I start to wrinkle.

Let us know when you turn 40, K, and we'll throw a party you can destroy :D

Stop... stop saying stupid **** like "I was living like I was dead". Dead is dead. There is nothing about living---not even dying--that is like being dead. Such sayings, my Lady, deceive you, expose you, and weaken your relationship, your connection, to the flowing arsis of the Force.


Hmm... One of my ongoing challenges with living in America is that Americans frame their existence through the paradigms of their media. And as I was raised in the wilds, I often hear things said by Americans but then don't know their context. I'm afraid I know nothing about the tropes of Malcolm X. I used the phrase as a metaphor having picked it up somewhere. Is there a danger to this trope beyond the nature of the words?

As it is correct that words matter, I will be more literal - I attempted to withdraw from the part of myself that was alive and could feel, because I did not want to feel. And I achieved it; or at least, a close approximation to it. But then I felt separated from everything. And then I felt like I was wasting my life, and I couldn't figure out how to re-connect to it.

@Draconis: I know what I want most. I want to live forever, and not in some figurative, commemorative way. I want to be flesh and blood, on this earth, until such time as I decide I want to die. If any of you guys has THAT figured out, you let me know. Everything else is of fairly equal weight and I have come to the conclusion that I must choose between doing less or sleeping less. I just want to be everything I want to be. I'm going to figure out how to do it, too. :D
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